SAYANI SPEAK

This article appeared originally in Mumbai Mirror, of the Times Of India group.

HIS MASTER'S VOICE - Ameen Sayani & Roshan Abbas

Roshan Abbas: Ameen Saab, you've had a career in radio which spans
more than half a century…

Ameen Sayani: That's right. To be very precise I started commercial
broadcasting in '49. But I've been a broadcaster since '39.

RA: When you were just seven years old.

AS: (laughs) When I was just seven years old.

RA: If you can tell us how you started out…

AS: I was with the AIR (All India Radio) radio station which had a
number of very very huge giants in broadcasting – some of whom I had
the opportunity of working under. I was an English broadcaster, mainly
for children's programmes and was caught playing the little boy in
very grown up dramas. The main people were Sultan Padamsee who was
also the creator of a theatre group, Adi Marzban, one of the finest
radio producers ever, Derek Geoffries who was one of the best radio
mixers, excellent with sound effects and mood music, and finally
Hameed Bhai (Hameed Sayani) an excellent drama artist and my own
brother.

RA: In fact I had read somewhere that it was in reaction to the fact
that Hamid Saab was an English broadcaster that you went into Hindi
broadcasting…
AS: It was a strange story. Hameed bhai had brought me up in
broadcasting and when I went into college I was already doing
extremely well in broadcasting in English in AIR. But when Ceylon came
into the scene with it's short wave transmitters and Indian film music
it took over with a bang, and covered the entire Asian continent right
upto the East coast of Africa. A reason for this was that the Indian
I&B minister had banned Indian film music on AIR. Now, Hameed bhai was
chosen as a programme director for the sole agency for radio Ceylon,
in Bombay. When I told him, "Hameed Bhai, I am your ace Chela. You'd
better give me some work," he said "Look chum there are only two
programmes for the English language, which I am handling. This is
mainly for the Hindi language, where there is a lot of scope." I had
been an English broadcaster and had studied Gujarati otherwise. So he
asked me to learn some Hindi and Urdu and get back to him. Now,
because of my mother being Gandhiji's shishya, I had been asked by
Gandhiji to work at and supervise the translation of a journal in
three scripts – Devanagri, Urdu and Gujarati. But the language was to
be Hindustani. So I had picked common denominator Hindustani up pretty
well. I used to attend an amateur programme called Ovalteen Kulwari,
featuring young people, just to listen. Bal Govind Shrivastav, who was
the producer, saw me one day before the recording bagan and said, "I
see you sitting around here everyday. Why don't you do some work
instead of just ogling at the girls. I'm giving you this commercial. I
know you're an English broadcaster, but have someone dictate it to you
so you can write it in the Roman script and read it out." I said I
knew Hindi, and didn't need the translation, and read it out. He liked
it and said, "You can come and do it every time because I'm sick of my
present commercial announcer. He's giving me trouble." When I asked
him how much he'd pay me however, he said, "Don't be silly who's going
to pay you. We'll give you one tin of oval teen every week." (Both
Laugh) So that was the secret of my good health in broadcasting – the
weekly tin of oval teen. That was how I started. Then, of course it's
a long story. Geet Mala came and gave me a tremendous lift.

RA: You've seen the best and worst of radio, in the years when
Television sort of became the main stay. Where do you think the shift
happened and why?
AS: The fall in radio in India was not because of Television. Nowhere
in the world has radio died or suffered because of Television. It has
its own field, slot and individuality. For instance, you could be
doing anything while listening to the radio. I've had thousands of
students saying, "We could not study for our exams unless the radio
was playing in the background".
The popularity of AIR died because of wrong policy – the
I&B minister's decision to not have Indian film songs. This also meant
less sponsored programmes. And sponsored programmes lent great impetus
to radio because they could be produced outside by different voices,
scriptwriters and programmers, so you didn't get bored with the same
RJs all the time.
Also, the AIR used to be where the
crème de la crème of the intelligentsia used to come and work. But
with the Indian film music going, listener-ship went, and these people
went as well.
Also, besides the film songs being taken away, a kind
of pseudo-sobriety, or should we say solemnity, was imposed upon the
presentation. People were not allowed to use the words 'I' or 'Me' or
'We'. It was never 'Hum Aap Ko Sunayenge', but 'Sunayenge'.

RA: Therefore at some level they were limiting personality?
AS: Absolutely. They were killing radio stars. People were not to
smile unnecessarily! And smiling is the nicest thing for a radio
broadcaster. You had to be very sober and announce a romantic song in
a deep funereal voice, as if to indicate that some great national
leader had popped off. That style infiltrated.

RA: And what about Radio Ceylon?
AS: The popularity of Radio Ceylon, which had sponsored programmes and
was the people's radio, died because of a different reason – the
neglect of the transmitter by the station and another external reason.
This was that when Peking and Moscow were broadcasting in Hindi and
English they discovered that the Hindi service for Radio Ceylon was
like wildfire. So they said, "Let us start a transmitter which is at
least 10 times as powerful on the same meter band and knock everyone
else out." So Radio Ceylon's reception went for a toss.

RA: And how did AIR come back?
AS: Then AIR brought back film music through Vividh Bharati, on
medium wave instead of on short waves, and they did some absolutely
fabulous programmes. But this started twiddling again in 1979, when a
group of individuals selected by Vasant Sathe, who was a minister,
were formed into a working group advising AIR and Door Darshan. When
TV came in instead of consolidating, they raised the AIR sponsorship
rates by about 5 times – almost 500 percent! The attitude was "We'll
show them who's boss." Now the Indian toy TV was visual and clients
started moving there. In the first few months, business dropped by
1/5th or 25 percent. The revenue might have remained the same, but
they lost a lot of listeners. So – wrong policy again!
Also, there were a lot of people managing things who
were probably very good as administrators but had no broadcasting
background. They did not 'feel' radio, or know how a radio station
should be run. It was the imposition of the administrator, ruling over
outstanding broadcasters, resulting in situations where the best
people doing well in certain departments were taken out and put where
they knew nothing! Total mismanagement… So radio did not suffer
because of television, radio suffered because of radio!

RA: With the Fm we've got dedicated listener-ship, but in smaller
cities. I have Mumbai or Delhi listening but cannot replicate the
entire nation listening to me, as was the case with you. Is that an
advantage or a disadvantage?
AS: It is both in a way. Through Geet Mala, we had people glued to the
radio whether or not they were comfortable with the Hindi language.
People all over India were listening to and understanding music… and
also learning Hindustani! I was surprised once when a secretary I&B
told me, "In Madras, when I was a student, we used to listen to Geet
Mala every week, although we never understood much of Hindi. If
anybody came to our house on that day, we'd ask them why they had to
come on a Wednesday." And there were thousands of such families in
Madras. So you could take one programme and splash it across the
continent, with limited resources.
But it's a disadvantage because obviously the total of all
spending (including sponsorship and air-time cost) is atleast 10 to 50
times more and hence there is a far greater risk on each programme.
Also, niche listening is there everywhere and with small pockets
you can mould whatever you're playing or saying to what people in an
area want, or you can go into languages. Radio Mirchi, for example has
a successful Bengali and Gujarati channel.
Also, you can take a programme and play it on other stations again,
like they did with this programme I had on FM, in Mumbai and Kolkata
which they played in 3 other stations. Also, with
programmes recorded from outside the organization, you get inputs with
a lot of variety.

RA: But there's a huge debate about pre-recording because there's no
interactivity. That's what's good about localization. The point that's
for a local presence as against national foot prints…
AS: Well, why not have both? Have local programmes, and slip in one
programme a day which has been recorded outside. Life, civilization or
radio, has to have a continuum. You have to imbibe the beautiful and
nice things which have happened in the past. Take what is suitable for
today, turn it into a contemporary programme and pitch anywhere –
it'll work. I had pre-recorded programmes in 7 or 8 countries of the
world and even today am negotiating with 5 countries. It's a little
difficult to arrange in the beginning, with RCS (Radio Control Systems
Work) and other formats which have come in, but not once you get the
hang of it.

RA: Talking about the other side – our audiences. Sometimes I feel
that it's the quick consumption culture which is responsible for
everything being ephemeral. You know? The "Please me now… don't please
me for a continuum". Do audiences get the radio or television they
deserve?
AS: It is a matter much larger than the media. It is as large as the
economic, political and socio life in general. Standards are falling
everywehere. People don't have the time to enjoy the money that they
earn, or are not being able to earn money if they're not going
straight in certain fields. The tremendous pressure of corruption and
pressure of mis-management is there in every stage of life. This has
led to the young mind getting a little distorted. Because they have
never had time, they have never known how beautiful some emotion could
be – depth intensity or passion is no longer there. Except a passion
for sex or to make a lot of money. I have a niece who's a highly
intelligent well-balanced girl with a magnificent job in a large
concern. But the way she has to work to earn that money, she doesn't
even have the time to talk to her parents, let alone me.

RA: That is the tragedy of wealth! (both laugh) So how do you enjoy
your time, because you've made your money.
AS: I'll tell you a little secret. I haven't made much money, though I
did a fantastic amount of work. This was because I took a lot of good
people to work with me and tried to pay them as much as I possibly
could. I got enough to live comfortably but could never collect much
money. When my son passed his 12ths and wanted to be a doctor I
couldn't afford the lakh and a half that was required for capitation
fees. Money meant – if you have it, spend it on your needs, share it,
but keep working. Working was my mental manure, my every thing.

RA: But now, at 73 having accumulated this huge wealth of work, how do
you spend your time?
AS: We've just bought a flat, and identifying a place, shifting and
getting things done took up so much of time. The FM programme I did
combined a lot of things – my life's best efforts. I used inputs from
various sources, especially my 45 year old library. Otherwise I do a
lot of spots and jingles abroad. I'm syndicating my programmes abroad.
I have 2 in Dubai and New Zealand and am working on others. I'm trying
to get Roshan Abbas, incidentally. And he is very difficult to get.
(RA laughs) Otherwise I'm very fond of doing crosswords and puzzles.

RA: And how would you solve the puzzle called Mumbai? The city seems
to have become a myriad of by-lanes with too many people and too
little space. Are you happy with what's happening?
AS: I'm not happy with what's happening not just in Mumbai, but the
whole country. I've felt and thought a lot about this, and hit upon a
simple solution as the basis of whatever goes wrong – unclear
communication. Our rules and regulations are so confused and confusing
that you never know what's the correct thing to do or how to plan
things. So you shoot up and fall down like our Sensex is doing and our
entire economy is likely to do. If people knew what is the law then in
a democracy one has the power to wield the power that is supposed to
be for the best for the people. If you don't know what is happening
what can you do?
During the municipal elections, for years one did not know when or
where they were being held, whether one's name was on the rolls or who
the candidates were! An organization called Agni made people agitate
for information and the percentage of people who voted jumped from 8
to 16!
For this communication to happen, radio is a very important media. But
provided it isn't shackled. Otherwise, as has happened often with me,
someone may interpret something very innocent as drastic and not allow
it's broadcast. FM came in like a breath of fresh air, because there
wasn't so much shackling. You yourself often over-said thing on FM in
your old days, but it was well taken, because it was well meant.
Also, style along with this freedom of expression can do a lot of
good. I've always maintained – You cannot have a complete
entertainment programme without social relevance, even if it's sugar
coated. And you cannot have a complete social relevance programme
without at least interest value, if not entertainment. I'm going to
make clarifying communication a movement and suggest the first hammer.
But I can't talk about that here and now.

RA: At the Radio Advertising and Practitioner's Association (RAPA),
which you're involved with, there are awards in 13 languages. Do you
think language diversity will help FM?
AS: In certain big cities, English is understood, or one goes into
Hindi or Hinglish, a chalta hai kind of language. But, in others
cities even , say Chennai, you can't expect to work in Hindi and have
to have Tamil and English. Similarly for Orissa. Even in Kolkata,
though Hindi is well known, they prefer Bengali.

RA: Infact, today English is more or less thrown out of the window.
The other day I saw a popular programme in a local language even
though the songs were Hindi film music. This is a strange new breed…
AS: There are two good things here – the local language is not being
forgotten and Hindi's being promoted as well. If you remember, it was
only the imposition of Hindi that killed state acceptance in Southern
states. Otherwise one of the best Hindi Prachaar Sabhas was in Tamil
Nadu. But this is a beautiful warm fusion. Maybe the radio is doing
what Gandhiji wanted to do in another style…

RA: You've developed a lot of association with a lot of film
personalities in your interviews. Do you miss any greats?
AS: I could talk about a number, but I'll name only one – Kishore
Kumar. He was the most unpredictable, crazy, fabulous and
multi-talented person. It was very difficult to corner him and I just
did 2 interviews, which were my life's best interviews. During the
first interview, which I had problems in getting, he came and said,
"You sit in one corner. I'll do the whole interview." He did 4 voices.
A judge, in this old villain's voice, Kishore Kumar the child, Kishore
Kumar the youth and Kishore Kumar the old man that he would be! The
second interview was when Dada Burman died. I approached him
hesitantly, as he was the closest to him from the people I knew, for a
two minute interview. He asked me to switch the recorder off and spoke
for one and a half hours. I kept asking him, "Let me put the recorder
on," but he didn't and said he'd come to the studio the next day.
Which he did and gave me two sessions because he couldn't finish at
one shot. I really miss him. Kishore died much earlier than he should
have…

RA: Don't you think a show with the Ameen Sayani and today's stars
would be a great format?
AS: It would be a good format. But I treat them as my nieces and
nephews. Some young music personalities do come in, but film star
types are very busy and (smiles) I don't have the time to run after
them anymore, and couldn't possibly ask them to come to my studio in
Colaba, which is the other end of town. And besides, things should
change. I've had my day. (smiles wryly) Why shouldn't Roshan Abbas
take over?